AMF's guide to story roles and angles

[Automagfreek]

This guide is born out of inspiration of the recent Macabee/NATO conflict. While nothing has gone wrong RP wise and I have no gripes, it has made me think just how important angles and roles are. Here's my take on it.

As some of you know, I prefer good writing as opposed to stat wanking. Writers such as Pantera, Melkor Unchained, and The Resi Corp. always get my attention. Why? Because of thier use of the English language and their ability to write in a captivating manner. Catchy, descriptive, and ground breaking story concepts are what makes a normal RPer a legend.

In this guide, I'm going to touch on the importance of good and evil, roles and angles.

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To me, NationStates is like pro wrestling. While it is true that both are fake, lessons from wrestling can be incorporated into how we play NS. In pro wrestling, there is never a winner or a loser, only a story. Here's a look at the good guys and bad guys.

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Main story roles

Babyface (Also known as 'Face', or the 'Good Guy'.):

These are your good guys fighting for the side of truth and justice. They believe in what is right and will sacrifice anything for what they believe is good and pure. Good examples of 'Face' nations are: Menelmacar, Liverpool England, and Iuthia. Face nations use methods of diplomacy and other keen political methods to solve their problems. Most RPer's that have been 'Faces' since they joined the site rarely get into armed conflict, and truely believe that the pen is mightier than the sword.

Heel (Also known as the "Bad Guy'.):

'Heels' are the evil ones that stop at nothing to cause havok and destruction. They believe that the world marches to the beat of the war drums, and armed conflict is usually their first option. Alot of RPer's that have been 'Heels' since they joined the site are rarely messed with, mostly due to the fact that they are the 'bad guys' of the site. Good examples of 'Heel' nations are: Melkor Unchained, Kalessin, and Wretchengard.

Tweener (Also known as 'The Middle Men', or better yet, 'In-Betweener'.):

These are the guys you can never quite figure out. Sometimes they're fighting on the side of good, and the next day they're helping out the bad guys. Tweeners can sometimes be swayed to one side or another, but there are always a select few who choose to always walk the line. Good examples of Tweeners are: Automagfreek, Sketch, and Crimmond. Tweeners can also play both roles at the same time, and I will use myself as a prime example. Although ICly I claim to fight on the side of good, I use tactics that some would deem as 'evil'. Hence 'walking the line'.

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Now that we've covered that, let's get into some of the roles and angles in RPing. Again, using terms taken from pro wrestling, we can come up with a system whereas we remove the 'need to win' element from NationStates and make it more of a freeform RP environment.

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Feud:

Feuds are when two nations are at a constant state of turmoil. ICly, they hate eachother's guts and would like to see nothing more than their opponenet slaughtered. Some 'Feuds' can result from IC hatred (which unfortunatly can lead to OOC hatred), and others can be the result of cooperation. Again, I'll use myself as an example here. Melkor Unchained and myself have a longstanding feud even though OOCly we both respect and admire eachother greatly. This 'Feud' was born out of that respect and the desire to interact with someone we deem a good RPer. Our feud has lasted for a long time now, even when I played the role of a 'Heel' last year.

Feuds are generally longstanding and rarely have resolve. Although feuds have been known to end as the result of a 'gimmick change' which I will now discuss.

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Gimmicks and gimmick changes

In my opinion, NationStates is about telling the story of your nation. While doing this you play the role of your leaders, your people, and your country as a whole and are effectively locked into a 'gimmick'. Examples of gimmicks are as follows:

* Terrorist nations
* Corporate nations
* Democracies
* Dictatorships
* Tribal States

And the list goes on forever. Your 'gimmick' is how you tell your story, and your 'gimmick' also depends on if you are a 'Face', 'Heel', or a 'Tweener'. Sometimes (as is the case with myself) an RPer wants to change up how they play the game ever so often. This is called a 'gimmick change'. Examples of 'gimmick changes' are as follows:

Face Turn: A nation goes from being a bad guy to a good guy.

Heel Turn: A nation goes from being a good guy to a bad guy.

Transformation: Civil war, regime changes, etc.

A 'gimmick change' results when you vary how you tell your story in a manner that makes an impact. Having good weather one day and having a storm the next isn't significant enough to be a gimmick change, but a nuclear disaster is. Some players (such as myself) do gimmick changes every few months to keep things interesting for the player and for the people reading the player's work.

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I truely believe that in NationStates there is no 'winning' and there is no 'losing', because there really is no end to NS, right? There's no deadlines or finish lines, so really there is no way to lose this game. As with pro wrestling, everybody has their ups and downs at some point. Wether this is planned or happens because of an invasion or terrorist attack is up to the player. Here are a few terms that could best describe the on-going process that is NS. Mind you these terms apply to RP's that are sorted out before hand or are planned along the way (as I feel all RP's should):

Job: To intentionally lose to another player to give them a 'push'.

Jobber: One who loses frequently to 'push' other players.

Push: When a player's popularity in the RP community increases due to a 'job'. (EXAMPLE: If Melkor Unchained intentionally loses to The Island of Rose, TIoR would be recognized as a major power for toppling the ultimate Heel.) A player gains more acceptance in the RP community as the result of a 'Push'.

Bait and Switch: This is a clever turn around. For example, when a player looks like they are going to lose, they do something totally unexpected that ends up winning them the day. An ace up your sleeve, if you will.

Rub: When a well known RPer gives a lesser known RPer a 'Push' by associating with them, usually not by 'Jobbing'.

Working: Taking a loss to another player but not looking weaker as a result of it. (EXAMPLE: You lose an entire fleet but it happens because your admirals were not present and the confused lesser ranks were left in charge.)

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I believe that the stats of the game are really nothing more than building blocks. It's what you do with your RPing that makes you a household name. Simply because your nation is older or has larger stats does not mean that someone who has spent alot of time RPing their military and can RP the pants off of said nation will lose. RP ability defeats stats, always. Keep this in mind, but don't be a victim of:

Stat Wanking: Relying solely on stats. Listing in excessive detail what kinds of weapons you have, how many individual ground units, the name of each ship and plane in your arsenal, etc. Stat wankers post paragraph after paragraph of stats and are quick to scream at the first person who does something that is not entirely feasible by real life standards, such as

* Clone armies
* Unusually powerful weapons
* Space craft

If done tastefully and within the bounds of reason, none of the above should be the grounds for an IGNORE. Remember kids, THIS IS NATIONSTATES, NOT REAL LIFE. If you want real life, turn off the computer and go outside.

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Well, there you have it. I'll update this as I think of more info to put into it.

Dude! This should be stickyied!!!

BTW-when you talka bout feisable stuff at the end, that only applies to real techs, right? Not future/fantasy?

[Automagfreek]

Originally Posted by The Lightning Star

Dude! This should be stickyied!!!

BTW-when you talka bout feisable stuff at the end, that only applies to real techs, right? Not future/fantasy?

Absolutly not. NS is your world to do what you please, and I myself RP as a modern tech/ fantasy nation. I RP Abrams tanks and blood thristy demons at the same time, and I do it feasibly enough so it's not godmodding.

NS is a palce where you can let your imagination run wild as long as it is not godmodding. Having demons decimate and opponent is godmodding because demons cannot be killed by conventional means. When I RP demons, it's for story purposes and character building, never for military action.

Do what you please, that is the glory of freeform RP.

Originally Posted by Automagfreek

Absolutly not. NS is your world to do what you please, and I myself RP as a modern tech/ fantasy nation. I RP Abrams tanks and blood thristy demons at the same time, and I do it feasibly enough so it's not godmodding.

NS is a palce where you can let your imagination run wild as long as it is not godmodding. Having demons decimate and opponent is godmodding because demons cannot be killed by conventional means. When I RP demons, it's for story purposes and character building, never for military action.

Do what you please, that is the glory of freeform RP.

But if you were to do a fantasy RP where you had demons but your enemies had holy ARchangels THEN would you use the demons in battle?

[Automagfreek]

Originally Posted by The Lightning Star

But if you were to do a fantasy RP where you had demons but your enemies had holy ARchangels THEN would you use the demons in battle?

Yeah I would, but RP's like that are normally worked out before hand so things don't get out of control and so that tempers don't flare.

Demon and angel type battles are cool but generally don't have an effect on your gimmick, or much of anything for that matter unless you want it to.

[Kriegorgrad]

OOC: Great thread, should be stickied as The Lightning Star said, I wouldn't mind getting beaten by you but I'd prefer to end outcome would be a (very forced) oath of fealty to AMF from Kriegorgrad, also, do you like urban style battles? Because the cities are gothic warzones!

EDIT: I'll probably be a tweener-heel.

[Automagfreek]

Originally Posted by Kriegorgrad

OOC: Great thread, should be stickied as The Lightning Star said, I wouldn't mind getting beaten by you but I'd prefer to end outcome would be a (very forced) oath of fealty to AMF from Kriegorgrad, also, do you like urban style battles? Because the cities are gothic warzones!

That could be arranged, and it could be done in a manner where you take the loss but do not look weaker as a result of it.

Dammit, thee's a new definition I need a term for!

[Kriegorgrad]

Originally Posted by Automagfreek

That could be arranged, and it could be done in a manner where you take the loss but do not look weaker as a result of it.

Dammit, thee's a new definition I need a term for!

Oh don't worry, I don't mind looking weaker, I just don't want to have that nasty "salted earth" on me. I don't want all my lovely, mucky, archaic 1800s industrial architecture to be gone

Maybe you could call it something like "tap-rub", as you associate with a lesser RPer and you "tap" them. Or something!

[Automagfreek]

Originally Posted by Kriegorgrad

Oh don't worry, I don't mind looking weaker, I just don't want to have that nasty "salted earth" on me. I don't want all my lovely, mucky, archaic 1800s industrial architecture to be gone

Maybe you could call it something like "tap-rub", as you associate with a lesser RPer and you "tap" them. Or something!

The term Work or Working has been added. Thanks.

I normally play a tweener-heel, and heel battles are always cool because they usually pull out the dirty tricks on eachother. As far as 'salted earth' goes, I normally reserve that for people that ICly tap a nerve of Damien's. If a foe of Damien's has honor, then he does not loose the wrath. Hope that makes sense.

Definatly a good read, oh and Krieg, bag a few sentinels for me.(as in, best of luck).

[Kriegorgrad]

Originally Posted by Automagfreek

The term Work or Working has been added. Thanks.

I normally play a tweener-heel, and heel battles are always cool because they usually pull out the dirty tricks on eachother. As far as 'salted earth' goes, I normally reserve that for people that ICly tap a nerve of Damien's. If a foe of Damien's has honor, then he does not loose the wrath. Hope that makes sense.

Its so much more fun being evil, isn't it? And I do understand your point about honour, the Kriegos military has a high standard of honour among it's troops, therefore, it has good morale.

Why don't you include some character angles, for generals, soldiers, civilians ect. ect.

EDIT: Thanks Dumpsterdam, I'll try (and fail)!

[Automagfreek]

Originally Posted by Kriegorgrad

Why don't you include some character angles, for generals, soldiers, civilians ect. ect.

Sure, I can do that tomorrow if I have time.

[Kriegorgrad]

Great, why don't you have something akin to a "left-to-right" scale, with evil being on side while good being on the other. Of course, this doesn't cover the whole character, just the base alignment.

bump

[Automagfreek]

Bump

Amazing how fast threads can fall......

Interesting.

Bureaucrat of the Drum God Empire
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Member of GDODAD, Allied to Metus
Member of the Central Powers and RWC
A January 2003 Nation

((OOC: Glad to know I was at least mentioned ))

[New Genoa]

I'd just like to add that a nation can have any mix of these characters. You don't have to be a definite good or bad or neutral nation, really. It can fluctuate depending on the character use.

[Nianacio]

It looks good, but there are a few things I disagree with.

Originally Posted by Automagfreek

RP ability defeats stats, always.

Although I agree with "It's what you do with your RPing that makes you a household name", I disagree with this. How well you RP won't help you when you're up against superior technology, numbers, and tactics, although it'll make your demise more interesting to read.

within the bounds of reason, none of the above should be the grounds for an IGNORE.

If you're a modern nation, clone armies are automatically beyond the bounds of reason. Unusually powerful weaponry can be technological superiority and (primitive) spacecraft exist in real life, though.

If you want real life, turn off the computer and go outside.

In real life I don't have control over an entire nation. ;)

[Present Day Comatica]

This thread is great....

What I wonder is, WHY AREN"T YOU A MOD YET????

[Automagfreek]

Originally Posted by Present Day Comatica

This thread is great....

What I wonder is, WHY AREN"T YOU A MOD YET????

Because the mods don't like me.

[The Ctan]

Originally Posted by Present Day Comatica

WHY AREN"T YOU A MOD YET????

Because, last I heard, there have been serious issues with AMF in the past.

[Automagfreek]

Originally Posted by The Ctan

Because, last I heard, there have been serious issues with AMF in the past.

Yes, in the past.

I realize now that alot of my past frustrations were because there was nobody really trying to help in the RP community to keep things civil and offer advice. So now that's the role I've taken up because I know what it's like to RP and have everything go wrong.

[imported_Illior]

Originally Posted by Automagfreek

Because the mods don't like me.

They Hate you?!?!?!?!?!?!?! you and Euro should be Mods right off the bat, you both have great credentials, an unusually great understanding of the game, a good sense of fairness, both of you help others to learn the game better (AMF w/ Sephrioth and Feminany, by the way, hows that goin? and Euro with all his guides) and lastly, both of you RP Overly well. There are probably more like this, but can't think of many more off the top of my head... maybe Pantera or any of the players you mentioned AMF, but besides all of that ranting, great job!

[Kriegorgrad]

And I thought I was sucking up...and Nianacio, he was talking about the nation as a whole, not the characters that make that nation up.

[Nianacio]

Originally Posted by Kriegorgrad

Nianacio, he was talking about the nation as a whole, not the characters that make that nation up.

I don't think I said anything about the characters. :\

[Notquiteaplace]

Its up to you what you accept, but as far as tech and unfeasible stuff goes.

The thing about gimmicks is that you cant really ignore them if they

a) RP them fairly, like you (AMF) and your demons and sentinels... or if someone uses post modern tech, you use a bit (or lot less if its big upgrade) less numberwise.

Ie Im considering 2020 ad era tech for my nation (possibly an MT version for people who wont accept it) but where id have crude power armour, I wouldnt have 1 million infantry, id have maybe a couple of hundred thousand maximum instead. etc.

On the other hand, I wouldnt expect anyone MT to accept my future spacedy nation in RPs if they werent themselves.

[Automagfreek]

Originally Posted by Nianacio

Although I agree with "It's what you do with your RPing that makes you a household name", I disagree with this. How well you RP won't help you when you're up against superior technology, numbers, and tactics, although it'll make your demise more interesting to read.

Not true. I've seen new nations RPing modern tech beat older nations using space tech. Superior tech will not save you if you don't know the firs thing about logistics or good writing.

If you're a modern nation, clone armies are automatically beyond the bounds of reason. Unusually powerful weaponry can be technological superiority and (primitive) spacecraft exist in real life, though.

No, clone armies are not beyond reason. I've stated several times that I am a slightly post modern nation, and who's to say that the technology won't be around in RL in the next few years? I do it within the bounds of reason and have gone into great detail as to how I've done it, so I do not think it is automatically beyond the bounds of reason.

[Sarzonia]

Originally Posted by Automagfreek

Not true. I've seen new nations RPing modern tech beat older nations using space tech. Superior tech will not save you if you don't know the first thing about logistics or good writing.

I've been trying to get this point across to other people that more advanced tech and greater numbers don't mean an automatic win.

A modern tech country with a primitive laser defense system can figure out how to use that laser to fire on an orbital platform. To get more extreme, an unshielded human from a future tech country still gets killed if he's hit in the right spot by an arrow from a past tech country's cavalry. Brilliant strategy beats ubertech.

Look at Finland in 1939. They fought a war against the Soviet Union (which I believe was even a superpower back then) and gave them a LOT of problems. Finland may have "lost" the war but the Soviets weren't able to subjugate the smaller country. I'm sure strategy played at least some role in Finland's survival.

[Nianacio]

Originally Posted by Automagfreek

Superior tech will not save you if you don't know the firs thing about logistics or good writing.

Logistics should have been bundled in with technology, tactics, and numbers. I guess it should be "numbers + technology + applied knowledge". Good writing, on the other hand, will just make one's demise more interesting.

I've stated several times that I am a slightly post modern nation

Slightly post modern!=Modern